2.

President's Announcements.

President Hirsch had no announcements.

 

3.

 

President Hirsch said that the Commission had received four proposals for an executive search firm, and said that he believed the sub-committee had reviewed them.   President Hirsch stated that Commissioner Lee was chair of the committee and asked Commissioner Guinnane if he wanted to comment.  Commissioner Guinnane said that he only received one proposal.  Secretary Aherne stated she wanted to clarify that she received four proposals after the last BIC meeting, and previous to that Bob Murray and Associates was brought in for informational purposes only.  Secretary Aherne said that Bob Murray and Associates was asked to come to a meeting one Monday and later Commissioner Lee asked that the Commission look into hiring an executive search firm.  Secretary Aherne said that Bob Murray and Associates’ representative, Regan Williams, came and spoke to the Commission about what an executive search firm does.  Secretary Aherne stated that since the last BIC meeting she sent a letter to the five firms on the approved list and she received four proposals back.  Commissioner Walker said that it does not look like Commissioner Guinnane received it.  Commissioner Guinnane stated that in addition they did not have a sub-committee meeting.  Secretary Aherne asked Commissioner Guinnane if he received the package during the week and he replied no he did not and all he had was the one package from Bob Murray and Associates.  Commissioner Walker said that Commissioner Romero did not receive the package either and Commissioner Romero stated that this was probably because he was not in the office on Friday.  Secretary Aherne stated that she sent the proposals via messenger on September 2, 2005.  President Hirsch said that it could be awfully hard to have a discussion on this since everyone did not receive the proposals.  Commissioner Guinnane stated that he and Commissioner Walker could share in looking at the paperwork. 

 

Commissioner Walker said that she received the proposals and she read them, and there are at least a couple that she thought the Commission should consider but since other Commissioners did not receive them it may be best to put this off until the next meeting which would be next Monday.   Commissioner Walker stated that she had actually been talking to people in the community, both in the building community and the general community, about this process.  Commissioner Walker said that she knows that she is newly appointed to this seat and a lot of this conversation may have happened prior but she would like to have a broader discussion, not just about DBI’s Director and the Building Department, but also the way that the Planning Department and Building Department work together, as well as the issues that are common to both departments.  Commissioner Walker stated that the Commission has recently had some issues come before it where there was confusion about what demolition is and the process by which the Building Department interfaces with the Planning Department, and said that she thought that a better first step right now would be to convene a joint Building Inspection Commission and Planning Commission meeting to discuss these issues with public input and at that point both departments could talk about their mutual searches for Directors.  Commissioner Walker said that there were people in the public who have expressed to her that they believe that both departments should be merged.  Commissioner Walker stated that it would be a great opportunity to have that discussion while both departments are looking for Directors, instead of jumping the gun, and possibly hiring a firm without having that discussion.  Commissioner Walker said that she would like to make sure that people who have submitted proposals would hold them for 30 to 60 days while the Commission discusses the proposed meeting, and she would like to schedule a joint meeting of the Building and Planning Commissions.

 

President Hirsch said that while he appreciated what Commissioner Walker was saying about discussing a joint meeting with the Building Inspection and Planning Commissions, aside from the mutual situations of searching for a Director, he did not think the Commission should delay its search.   President Hirsch stated that the Commission was not hiring a Director right away, but said that he thought a search should be instituted.  President Hirsch said that the Commission does not have a job description yet from the Human Resources Department, and once it is received it would be difficult to put out a request.  Commissioner Walker said that she agreed and since the Commission did not have a description, in the meantime it could interface or talk about having a joint meeting with Planning in the next few weeks or months.  President Hirsch stated that he did not see that this was mutually exclusive.  Commissioner Walker said that at this time she was reluctant to hire a search firm without first going and having this discussion with the Planning Department.  President Hirsch said that he did not think the Commission was hiring a search firm today because at least two of the Commissioners did not have the information in front of them. President Hirsch stated that he was not even sure the Commission was going to select one of the firms as the number one choice, but said that he thought a discussion could be opened as much as possible as to the merits or demerits of these firms, if those who have read the proposals would like to.  President Hirsch said that the Commission could also take Secretary Aherne’s suggestion regarding just putting out an announcement once there was an approval of the job description, just on the wire.  President Hirsch stated that again this was not preempting hiring an executive search firm, but just posting the job description at CALBO, ICC, AIA, et cetera, which would at least alert both city-wide and statewide that the Department is interested, down the line, in interviewing and hiring a Director. 

 

Commissioner Walker asked if President Hirsch was talking about Advanced Recruitment Solutions and President Hirsch said that he was.   Commissioner Walker stated that she actually requested that Secretary Aherne provide the Commission with information about Advanced Recruitment Solutions, and said she did not see anything so she wanted to look at it first.  President Hirsch said that he was just suggesting this as a step-by-step procedure, and asked if there were any comment.  Secretary Aherne stated that regarding Advanced Recruitment Solutions, she would get some information on their company to Commissioner Walker.  Secretary Aherne said that Advanced Recruitment Solutions is a firm that the Department has used before, and what they do is to put the information on different web sites for the Department, and this was something that could be done in conjunction with hiring an executive search firm.  President Hirsch asked if the other Commissioners had any comments.

 

Commissioner Romero said that he was thinking about what next week’s meeting was going to look like and he asked if the Commission was going to split the meeting to have the discussion about the search firms or recruitment groups.   Commissioner Walker stated that she would like to agendize the discussion about having a joint meeting, to get approval.  President Hirsch said that this was a separate issue.  Commissioner Walker stated that it was related as far as she was concerned.  President Hirsch said it is related, but it is still separate.  Commissioner Walker said that the Commission was discussing the next meeting and said she was saying that she would like that item on the agenda. President Hirsch stated that this issue would come later on, under Item 6. Commissioner Fillon said that as it relates to the Director, he thought that what Commissioner Walker was talking about, the ultimate goal of having that meeting was to begin some kind of process to combine the two departments and he asked if this was correct.  Commissioner Walker stated that it was not a process to combine departments but it was to discuss all of these issues that relate to both departments.  Commissioner Walker said that the BIC Commissioners are responsible for setting policy and said it was a good time to do that, before either of the departments moved forward.  Commissioner Walker stated that she could not speak for the Planning Department, but said there was a lot that has happened that indicates that DBI and Planning need to work better together.  Commissioner Walker said she had not just heard this from one person, but from a lot of people that there is interest in discussing the possibility of merging departments.  Commissioner Walker stated that out of courtesy to those people and to the Commission’s process, she thought that the time to do that was now when both departments need to hire Directors rather than after.

 

President Hirsch stated that the discussion to hold a joint meeting to discuss each of the department’s or Commission’s concerns, goals, and future activities was separate from hiring a Director.   Commissioner Walker said that she believed it was a step before, and for her it was part of the process of looking at whom DBI hires and what the job description is.  Commissioner Walker stated that she thought it made sense to have that conversation before beginning the process, and the Commission was discussing selecting an executive search firm and she was saying it is premature. President Hirsch said that he did not think it was premature to have this discussion.  Commissioner Fillon stated that he thought Commissioner Walker could still have that dialogue happen, and proceed with hiring a Director because it is a long process.  Commissioner Fillon said that Secretary Aherne had laid out the process and said it was going to take a long time to get all this put together, so there would be plenty of time during that process to get the input, have a joint meeting, to digest it and for the Commission to get as much public input as possible.  Commissioner Fillon stated that this was why the Commission was meeting today to get public input on the process of hiring a Director, and said he did not see many people present beyond the usual. 

 

Commissioner Walker said that as Mr. O’Donoghue suggested previously it was kind of agendized as hiring an executive search firm, not necessarily dealing with the entire issue.   Commissioner Fillon stated that there would be a lot more meetings for this whole process, so maybe the Commission needed to get the word out that this was all part of that process.  President Hirsch said that one was not mutually exclusive to the other, so the Commission could discuss hiring an executive search firm for the purposes of hiring a Director.  President Hirsch stated that this was not committing the Department to sign the contract today.  President Hirsch said that the Commission could not do that for several reasons, one was that hiring a firm had to be cleared by the Human Resources Department and secondly, for a firm to post a search for a Director the Department needs a job description.  President Hirsch stated that while all of that is going on, as Commissioner Fillon points out, the Building Inspection Commission could have meetings with the Planning Commission and hear their concerns as well as the BIC’s, but that is a future meeting agenda item.  President Hirsch said that right now the discussion was whether or not the Building Inspection Commission wants to hire an executive search firm.

 

Commissioner Fillon stated that the bottom line was that if the Commission wanted to be in a position to actually hire somebody in six months, they needed to get the ball rolling.   Commissioner Walker said that she thought this was like putting the cart before the horse.  Commissioner Walker stated that there are some major issues that the Commission could talk about, and she was not saying not to hire somebody but why would the Commission do an executive search if the job description might change in the interim.  Commissioner Walker said that this seems the first conversation to have, to entertain that or not.  President Hirsch stated that the discussion now was about if the Commission wanted to hire an executive search firm period.  Commissioner Walker said that she would make a motion that the Commission put this off at least until the next meeting.  Commissioner Romero stated that the next meeting would be the following Wednesday.  President Hirsch asked what was the reason for delaying this until the next meeting.  Commissioner Walker responded that two people did not have information about the firms and have not looked at it. 

 

Commissioner Guinnane said that he was prepared to move forward and said he had read them now and he had notes on the other two proposals that he did not have.   Commissioner Guinnane stated that if this item was going to be delayed he did does not know why the Commission was wasting time having a Special Meeting.  President Hirsch said that the Commission was having a Special Meeting because he had hoped everyone would have read the information.  Commissioner Romero stated that he did not just read the proposals, so he cannot say that he is ready.  President Hirsch asked Commissioner Fillon if he had received the proposals.  Commissioner Fillon replied that he did receive them and he also read Commissioner Lee’s comments about what he was comfortable with and was in agreement.  Commissioner Walker said that she was not in disagreement with Commissioner Lee about looking at the actual companies.  Commissioner Walker stated that she thought the decision was between two firms for her as well, and said she could easily make a choice about that but said she thought there were other things the Commission needed to be taking just as seriously.  Commissioner Walker said that one of those things was getting adequate public comment agendized in a way that solicits it, specifically around the Planning Department and BIC working together.  Commissioner Walker went on to state that those were things that she would like to talk about and hear about before she could even look at the job description that may or may not come out of Mr. Ginsberg’s office or the Human Resources Department. 

 

Commissioner Guinnane said that Commissioner Walker was talking about public input, but the meeting agenda had been well noticed and when the sub-committee meetings were held only a few people showed up.   Commissioner Guinnane stated that this item had been on the calendar with the BIC and there was nobody present that is interested, obviously.  Commissioner Guinnane also said that it was not that the meeting was not well publicized or well noticed, but people just do not seem to have an interest in it.  Commissioner Walker stated that she did not think that was true, because she has been getting calls from people.  Commissioner Fillon said that he had received calls as well, but they were from people who want to know what was going on and why the Commission was not taking action to get a permanent Director at the Department.

 

Commissioner Walker stated that was not what she heard; instead she had heard people with a lot of concerns that want to talk about.   President Hirsch said that he thought that the people that called Commissioners Walker and Fillon should show up at the meetings and voice their concerns or desires publicly.  President Hirsch stated that each of the Commissioners could say they have received a call from someone, but it was perhaps anecdotal.  President Hirsch said that he believed both Commissioners, but said that the Commission did not have those comments on the public record.  President Hirsch stated that there was a motion and asked if there was a second, and Commissioner Romero replied that he would second the motion.  Secretary Aherne asked if the motion was to delay and Commissioner Walker responded that it was actually to continue.  President Hirsch asked if the motion was to continue this until there was a full quorum or full attendance on Monday.  Secretary Aherne said that Commissioner Lee was going to be away for two weeks and would not be at the next meeting.  Commissioner Romero asked if any of the folks from any of the firms that submitted proposals were in attendance, and Secretary Aherne replied no because the Commission did not ask them to be.  Secretary Aherne said that if the Commission would like them to attend the next meeting, there would be about four presentations.  President Hirsch stated that he thought their presentations on paper were fine.

 

Commissioner Walker asked if she could amend her motion to continue the item and said that her point would be to see if the Commissioners could agree to whittle it down to the two firms.   Commissioner Guinnane said Commissioner Walker did not say that, but what she wanted to do was continue the item until the next meeting.  Commissioner Walker stated that she was trying to take some action and to work something out.  Commissioner Walker went on to say that there were two firms that people seem to be willing to choose between, and maybe what the Commission could do was to get the representatives from each firm to come and be present to answer questions next Monday.  Commissioner Fillon asked if the Commission would be able to choose one at that meeting, or would this be put off again to select until another meeting.  Commissioner Walker said that it would depend and said that she was going to ask for some other actions when the meeting got to the agenda item on future meetings, so maybe the Commission could do some other things at the same time, which was what she suggested.

 

President Hirsch asked if there was any further discussion on the issue.   Commissioner Romero asked Commissioner Walker to clarify her amendment to the motion.  Commissioner Walker said that she was going to rescind or pull back her original motion, and amend it to say that the motion was to limit the Commission’s choices to the two firms—Bob Murray & Associates and CPS.  Commissioner Walker stated that she would also like to ask the two firms to come present on Monday.  Secretary Aherne stated that both of the firms might not be able to show up on Monday because that was just giving them a week’s notice.  President Hirsch asked if the other Commissioners felt the firms needed to attend, since they have both of their written proposals and said he was not sure what their attendance would prove.  Commissioner Walker said that she would like to ask questions because for instance Bob Murray & Associated did not have any sort of large cities as references, and said she would like to directly ask them about their experience with cities similar to San Francisco’s population and makeup.  Commissioner Walker stated that she would also like to have the next week to continue calling references, and the Commission could ask further about responses to that.

 

President Hirsch suggested that a list of questions be prepared and sent to the two firms, and asked if this could be done through written correspondence rather than an in-person presentation.   Commissioner Walker stated that she actually would prefer them being at the meeting.  President Hirsch asked if there was a second to the motion, and said that first of all the seconder to the first motion had to rescind his second.  Commissioner Romero said that he rescinded his second.  Secretary Aherne asked if there needed to be public comment before the Commission voted on the motion, and President Hirsch replied yes. 

 

Mr. Joe O’Donoghue of the Residential Builders Association said that he completely agreed with President Hirsch.   Mr. O’Donoghue stated that the discussion had been extricated because the Commission met to select a firm, and then things got confused because Commissioner Walker brought in other public policy issues that have no relevancy, even though she had tried to make a nexus.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that the public’s issues or concerns that Commissioner Walker mentioned should go under future agenda item number 5 for the next meeting on Monday.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated secondly there has been no discussion whatsoever regarding the firms, and yet subjectively Commissioner Walker had suddenly said there were two choices of firms.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that there were about five firms as he understood it, yet there was no discussion whatsoever about them.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that obviously what was happening was an attempted deliberate delay of the selection process, which does not bother the Residential Builders because they were taking their business out of the city.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that by January there would be a change in the Department and everyone needed to take a lesson from what had happened with FEMA, which came in for universal praise some years ago, but because it now had inept management was coming under severe criticism.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that if there are members of the public talking to Commissioner Walker, they should come before the Commission otherwise it was just hearsay.   Mr. O’Donoghue said that members of the building industry, rather than the public, who are paying fees to subsidize everything that is functioning effectively today are “screaming bloody murder”, because they cannot get their permits out.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that one of the articles on FEMA pointed out that inept leadership had been put into the administrative functions that have no concept as to how the industry functions.  Mr. O’Donoghue addressed Commissioner Walker and said that she should be honest and just say that she intends to delay the selection process of finding a Director until Commissioners Guinnane and Fillon are off of the Commission in December.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that this was all about politics, and while the political process is used to advance certain agenda, when it comes to the administrative functioning of the Department to make it productive then there can be no political agenda.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that it has to be done under objective standards and the public is impacted right now.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that in April the Commission said the selection process would be completed by August, and it is not done yet.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that neither Commissioner Walker nor the Mayor was around in the last earthquake, but the RBA was and they were the people with experience in the field.

 

Mr. Charles Marstellar said that he was wearing another hat at this time and stated that he was the former head of common cause in San Francisco of many years, and was officially coordinator and chairman of their board.   Mr. Marstellar stated that he had made commentary in the past on the Department of Building Inspection, and said he was very pleased to see that this Commission has moved forward with real progress.  Mr. Marstellar said that he would say that if Commissioners who did not serve on the subcommittee have the interest in interviewing candidates for the selection agent that they should certainly be given the opportunity to interview in public session.  Mr. Marstellar stated that public comment should be taken on that dialogue and those questions that might come up as a result of the dialogue, so he thought it was really a process issue at this point.  Mr. Marstellar said that he did not really see a one-week delay as a stall tactic to carry the selection process into the month of December.  Mr. Marstellar stated that he was certain that everyone agreed that the Commission needs to move forward with this process, but a one-week continuance so that all members of the Commission can essentially examine the candidates, plus members of the public, would certainly be a constructive process and one that would be respected in the press. 

 

Mr. Henry Karnilowitz said the Commission was faced with a difficult task of deciding how it would proceed in selecting a new Director.   Mr. Karnilowitz stated as Mr. O’Donoghue just mentioned the Commission should have had someone decide on who was going to select the Director, if not internally or externally by August and it is already September.  Mr. Karnilowitz stated that he could see this going on into next year and the Commission was still discussing who should do what.  Mr. Karnilowitz said that DBI has a Charter that gives a description about who should get this position, so the Commission should be able to move forward and not keep procrastinating.  Mr. Karnilowitz stated that the Department needed someone now, and not a week or a month or a year away as it was just not fair to the public or for people who work within the Department.  Mr. Karnilowitz said that as for the public making comments, where were the public and if they were interested in what is going on then they should attend the meetings to say what they want instead of just calling up different Commissioners.  Mr. Karnilowitz stated that the public needed to be at the meetings because this is what this public forum is for, so that people could come and speak out but if they cannot then that is tough and that is the way it should be.

 

President Hirsch asked if there were any final comments from the Commissioners.   Commissioner Walker said just in response to some public comment that there was no interest on her part in delaying this process at all.  Commissioner Walker stated that she felt a responsibility to the public to be mindful and conscientious about her process of gathering information and making a choice.  Commissioner Walker said that she wanted to mention that her term also ends in December, so she does not want to be accused of speeding up the process so that she could have a vote, and she would remind all of the Commissioners that the decisions they make carry on past their terms.  Commissioner Walker stated that she was really committed to doing a thorough and conscientious job in choosing the next Director, who will lead the Department.   Commissioner Walker said that in the interim she has spoken to people who use the Department and said that she hears that the leadership currently at DBI is doing a great job of stabilizing a department that has been up in the air for decades, so she wanted to counter any kind of testimony to the contrary and said she really appreciated the leadership team that is in place with DBI at this point.

 

Commissioner Romero said that since he has been on the Commission, one point he specifically remembers is last year when reports came out about the Department, comments were made on his part that there were going to be changes in the Department, if for example there was a perception that the Department was not “cleaning up its act”.   Commissioner Romero stated that he understood why there was a concern to move the selection process forward quickly, but his concern ultimately is for the people who work at the Department, as well as the public being served.  Commissioner Romero said that the DBI employees have had to live in a situation where there was a lot of uncertainty.  Commissioner Romero stated that staff has felt intimidated and their professional integrity has been compromised to a certain degree in terms of the way they make decisions.  Commissioner Romero said that he wants to see a Director that has a great management background, and his hope is that the Department gets a lot of candidates that demonstrate that.  Commissioner Romero stated that in terms of rushing through the process, he wants to make sure that any candidates that are interviewed, at least from the Commission’s point of view, demonstrate a strong willingness to work with the public and the Department, but on an equal basis with everybody.  Commissioner Romero said that there are a lot of arguments as to the speed of the selection process, but the Planning Department has taken years to find a Director so he thinks the BIC is doing well.

 

President Hirsch asked Commissioner Romero, as a point of clarification, if when he said candidate that he meant candidates for the search committee or the candidates for the position. Commissioner Romero said that he is sure the Commission is not just going to pick candidates from what is recommended.   President Hirsch questioned that in terms of what Commissioner Romero was saying if he meant candidates that the Commission is looking at right now for the executive search firms.  Commissioner Romero said that was correct and that was what he said, but this would be just a continuation of this conversation to Monday. 

 

Commissioner Fillon said that he could say from experience what this is about is a lot of process, and said that previously a public speaker, he believed Pat Buscovich, said that when the Commission gets to the end of this selection process there would probably be three or four people that are qualified, that want the job, that are willing to take the low salary and move to San Francisco, if they are not already here, and take on the task.   Commissioner Fillon stated that it was about getting through the process and making sure the public gets their proper opportunity to give input. Commissioner Fillon said that the Commission Secretary, Ann Aherne, has done a great job of outlining this process that is a big task, so the Commission needs to keep it moving because it is going to take a long time, most likely way beyond December.  Commissioner Fillon stated that his term is up in December, so he figures he would be gone by the time the decision is made even if the Commission moved as fast as they possibly could.  Commissioner Fillon said that in terms of the leadership of the Department, there is a dire need to get an actual Director in place, and said that it was not because the leadership that is there now is bad—not at all.  Commissioner Fillon stated that there was a sense as well as a reality that when there was a Director in the past, if something came up that there was a disagreement on or there was some ambiguity, “the buck stopped” with the Director and that Director had the confidence to make a decision to get things going.  Commissioner Fillon said that right now he does not think that situation exists in the Department, and a lot of the staff does not have the confidence to make decisions that they would if there were a Director that they could fall back on to support those decisions.  Commissioner Fillon stated that there was a lot of timidity especially regarding larger projects, and the way things are being processed so it is not working as smoothly as it would work with an actual Director in place who could “step up to the plate” and take responsibility on a given project and make a hard call; the Department does not have that right now, and that is just the way it is.

 

President Hirsch stated that Commissioner Fillon was just saying because everyone knows no matter how good a job is being done right now by the Acting Director, it is still only an Acting Director position and the Department needs a permanent Director and he fully agrees with that.

Commissioner Fillon said that is not to say anything bad about the Acting Director and President Hirsch agreed and stated that this just kind of frames the discussion as far as what the parameters are.   President Hirsch said that in a way today’s meeting was premature, because as it turns out the Commission does not have an official job description from Human Resources and cannot really hire anyone right now.  President Hirsch stated that an executive search firm requires a great deal of “red tape” to be cut through, so the motion to reduce the Commission’s choices between the two firms is what is on the table as well as holding it over until Monday and requesting the representatives to come if they can.

 

Commissioner Walker said that was her motion.   Commissioner Fillon stated that he would support the motion if the Commission could make a commitment to actually vote on picking a firm at that time, because he would hate to see it get continued again.  Commissioner Walker said that she was totally willing to vote on selecting a firm, but she was not saying how she was going to vote.  Commissioner Walker also stated that she was willing to vote on it today but her vote would just be no right now.  Commissioner Fillon said that he was referring to Monday’s meeting and Commissioner Walker said she understood.  President Hirsch stated that the Commission could bring it to a vote on next Monday, yet that does not necessarily mean it would pass.  Commissioner Walker asked Deputy City Attorney, Judy Boyajian, if there was public comment again and she replied no there was not.  Ms. Boyajian said that Mr. O’Donoghue could speak on general public comment, but there is no back and forth arguing.  President Hirsch stated that he believed the Commissioners were talking amongst themselves.

 

Mr. Joe O’Donoghue of the Residential Builders Association said that he agreed but the point he was making was on a public comment from the public on a substantive issue, and then no comment can be made on that comment.   Mr. O’Donoghue stated if there was a comment made then that comment, rather the person from the public has the right to comment to the commenter by the Commission and that is the Robert’s Rules of Procedure.

 

Ms. Boyajian stated that she had never heard of that rule.   Mr. O’Donoghue responded that there were a lot of rules that Ms. Boyajian had not heard of, but with all respects she could discuss it at the next meeting.  Commissioner Walker asked Mr. O’Donoghue to sit down.  Mr. O’Donoghue replied that this is the dialogue and he would bring that dialogue to the next meeting.

 

President Hirsch called the question in favor of the motion, and the motion carried 3 to 2 with Commissioners Guinnane and Fillon dissenting.

 

RESOLUTION NO. BIC 053-05

 

4.

Public Comment:   The BIC will take public comment on matters within the Commission’s jurisdiction that are not part of this agenda.

Mr. Joe O’Donoghue of the Residential Builders Association said that regarding the last item on public comment, the Commission needs to bring in a parliamentary person to educate the Commissioners, including the City Attorney, on the Robert’s Rules of Procedure.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated when people watch the process in the Planning Department they will find rules properly carried out rigidly, so they would find what was stated at the Building Inspection Commission meeting was entirely incorrect.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that the reality today is that four months ago, April, May, June, July, August the Commission was supposed to have a Director already selected.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that with all due respect to the watchdog community group, who does not attend these meetings, the fact is the selection of the Director was supposed to already have been put in place.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that four months later, the Commission is just now looking for a search firm, who will then select the Director.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that this not a one-week delay, but the Commission is four weeks behind the process without a search firm and they are headless at the Department.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that during the Loma Prieta earthquake the head of the Department at the time went comatose, and in fact it was the ground crew, who many of them are now retiring, that saved this City from a disaster.  Mr. O’Donoghue mentioned that Jim Hutchinson, Laurence Kornfield, and Sean McNulty led a ground operation in making decisions on what buildings should be saved, what should be done, and reported directly to professionals from Mayor Agnos’ office but the Department does not have that system today.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that there are people who have been promoted recently, who have absolutely no experience whatsoever when faced with problems and a Department cannot be run based on administrative function alone.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that the industry is furious, contractors are enraged, homeowners cannot get over-the-counter permits, and the whole Department is a total mess.   Mr. O’Donoghue stated that there are delays at every level, so if the Department cannot process the paperwork by so-called experienced administrative people, who have been promoted recently, what is going to happen in the event of a disaster.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that it is truly going to be a disaster if DBI does not learn from what happened with the breakdown in FEMA.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that four years ago he stated to members of the Residential Builders Association, if they knew how the Federal government was run and functioned they would go comatose and would not sleep nights.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that he is on record as having said that, and it has been demonstrated that there has been a total breakdown.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that if an earthquake hits tomorrow, there would be an absolute disaster because there are people with a political agenda who are running this Department and said that these people should not play with the lives of citizens of this city.

 

Mr. Charles Marstellar said that he wanted to refer back to the last meeting in which he made speculations regarding the situation at 835 Turk, cross street Franklin.  Mr. Marstellar stated that he has a report with multiple pages, which he believed the Commission has also received.  Commissioner Walker said that this is a Special Meeting, so they would probably receive it before the next meeting.  Mr. Marstellar asked if this matter would be placed on the calendar at that time for his comments, because he is prepared to comment.  President Hirsch said that the Commission did not have his report.  Mr. Marstellar stated that he would defer his comments until the next meeting, but he had one other follow-up item.  Mr. Marstellar said that he served on the Seismic CAC in the late 80’s in San Francisco and said he knew a good bit about that issue as well.  Mr. Marstellar said that he concurs with Mr. O’Donoghue’s position that the City is at extreme risk, and there is an interest by individuals to form an advocacy organization for the purpose of seismic public safety and evacuation.  Mr. Marstellar stated that he thought it was time to do that, certainly in light of what happened in New Orleans.  Mr. Marstellar said that he wanted to give the Commission the courtesy of letting them know that there is an interest of a community that is now forming for that purpose, and it is very preliminary but it will have some good technical experts on it, and they hope to get back to the Commission, other departments, and possibly the Mayor.

5.

Review Commissioner’s Questions and Matters.

Commissioner Walker said her comments would be more about future meetings.  President Hirsch responded that, that should be discussed under item 5b.

b.  Future Meetings/Agendas.  At this time, the Commission may discuss and take action to set the date of a Special Meeting and/or determine those items that could be placed on the agenda of the next meeting and other future meetings of the Building Inspection Commission.

Commissioner Walker said that she had a few things to discuss, but number one was to talk about a joint Planning Commission and Building Inspection Commission meeting and to define some of the issues that they could put on, including the demolition issue, merger, and each of the Commission’s Director searches to get public input.  Commissioner Walker stated that number two was the emergency preparedness issue, to have a presentation from staff, as to the Department’s policy and actions regarding emergency preparedness.  Commissioner Walker said that she would also like to agendize an ethics advisement to Commissioners from the Ethics Commission and/or the City Attorney, regarding ethics to clarify what conflict of interest is, in light of certain ongoing issues.  President Hirsch asked if Commissioner Walker meant in terms of waivers.  Commissioner Walker said that she was talking about waivers, but also a waiver does not mean a Commissioner can engage in conflict of interest, so she thinks everyone needs to get clarify that.  Commissioner Walker stated another issue was creating a committee who interviews applicants for the BIC sub-committee appointments.  Commissioner Walker said that currently it seems like the Commission receives applications and agendizes them, but she thinks they should go through the process of interviewing people.  Commissioner Walker stated during that process the Commission could actually discuss the waiver process, as well as how to be more effective with that instead of what is happening now; people are appointed then they have to resign and go forward.  Commissioner Walker said that she would also like to have an update as to where the Department is with the computer system.  Commissioner Walker stated that she would like to agendize a presentation from the Department’s MIS Division to discuss the current status.  Commissioner Walker said that she would like the Commission to be more involved with the MIS on some level, and those are the five issues that she would like to have agendized.

 

President Hirsch asked if Commissioner Walker could prioritize the items because he did not think all of the items could be on one agenda.  Commissioner Walker started to state the order as emergency preparedness, one; joint Planning & BIC meeting, two. Commissioner Walker said that all of the issues are pretty urgent, so if possible she would like to discuss them in the next two or three meetings.  Commissioner Walker stated that some of the items may be determined by what the staff can have prepared within a week or by the first meeting in the next moth, so she suggested that staff prioritize those for the next two meetings depending on time.  Commissioner Walker said that some of these items are going to take some preparation, so she does not want to rush people unnecessarily.  Commissioner Walker stated that emergency preparedness seems to be the most urgent item for obvious reason, and a joint Planning and BIC meeting, if those could be put on the next meeting agenda, and then follow up on the other items.  President Hirsch questioned if Commissioner Walker was talking about putting the joint meeting on the next agenda.  Commissioner Walker said no, but she would like to talk about it because she believes it has to be discussed as an agendized item, which has not been done yet.

 

President Hirsch clarified that Commissioner Walker was asking that the Building Inspection Commission be able to vote in favor of having a joint meeting with the Planning Commission.  Commissioner Walker confirmed that this was her intent.  Commissioner Guinnane said through the chair, if President Hirsch went back and looked for the last two months that he had asked for about 10 items to go on the calendar, and said he thought there were a lot more important issues than what was just presented. Commissioner Guinnane stated in reference to the MIS, that there has been an ongoing problem for the last five years.  Commissioner Guinnane said that the Department has looked at other districts as well as a lot of other issues, but it is his firm belief that the MIS problem will remain for a long time because there are forces in the Department that do not want to change it.  Commissioner Guinnane stated that to really revamp the computer system the Department is looking at about $8 million to thoroughly change the whole system.  Commissioner Guinnane said that there are problems with backlogs in different departments and said he mentioned this about six weeks ago.  Commissioner Guinnane stated that the Department was to come back to the Commission with flow charts for each division in the Department, showing how much has been staffed and where the problems are, so he wanted accountability on the employees, as well as what they do each week, each month, and so on.  Commissioner Guinnane said that where the Department has huge problems, maybe the Commission could take a look at this and possibly overstaff the division by 20% to take care of that problem.  Commissioner Guinnane stated that Secretary Aherne has the other items that he had requested, and there were a total of 10 items that he has been trying to get on the calendars for the last two and a half months, so if needed he could re-submit them.

 

Secretary Aherne said that she has the items and in fact she gave the list to Acting Director Lee, Jim Hutchinson, and Wing Lau last week.  Commissioner Guinnane thanked Secretary Aherne.

President Hirsch called for public comment on item number 5.

 

Mr. Joe O’Donoghue of the Residential Builders Association said that it was obvious from the eclectic discussion that has gone on, which even had him confused and he is generally not, that the Commission needs to prioritize and to strictly stick to the matters as they have been advertised on the calendar.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that regarding Commissioner Walker’s suggestions as to hearing from staff about the preparations, all the problems the Department has been having, et cetera there needs to be public input.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that if staff suddenly without any notice to the public, other than the 24 hours notice which is not sufficient, on matters that Commissioner Walker considers a priority, then the public needs to have adequate notice that there is going to be such a discussion of such substance before the Commission.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that the BIC should lay down rules and regulations like they have at the Planning Commission, and when there is a presentation made by staff there is a time limit put on that presentation so that there is not filibustering done by members of the staff.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that after the public listens to 30 minutes of dialogue that has no substance, that is called a process, ends up with no process because then the public only has three minutes to discuss some inane, insane, and stupid proposals as advanced by members of staff.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that this is not just staff within this Department but this is generally the way to filibuster and to control through the process, and turn the entire public off so he is more in favor of input.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that this is the reason why the Department was created to begin with, so the public would have an input and by the public, he means the industry members who are the ones who created this Department.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that he was not referring to the mythical public that Commissioner Walker referred to because he does not know where they are.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that he hoped that Commissioner Walker would bring her public members to the next meeting, because he will bring members of the industry who are paying through their property taxes and fees, the whole function of making this Department a good department so that there will be a total complete dialogue.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that when Commissioner Walker wants specificity, there should be specificity, but to propose merging the Building Department with the Planning Department is absolutely, totally stupid.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that this makes no sense; it shows a naiveté of a political purpose to totally dismantle this process that was at one time a good one, wherein the members of the public, such as the small contractors, the small homeowner, and the remodeler could get their permits out.  Mr. O’Donoghue asked President Hirsch if there could be specificity on the next agenda when the rules and regulations are set.

 

6.

Public Comment:  The BIC will take public comment on matters within the Commission’s jurisdiction that are not part of this agenda

 

Mr. Henry Karnilowitz said that he has noticed that the computers frequently go down at the Department, and something needs to be done about that because it is very frustrating when a customer is trying to get a permit.  Mr. Karnilowitz stated that some customers only come in once in “a blue moon” so for them to spend four hours waiting to get a permit, and later find they cannot because the computers are down is unsatisfactory.  Mr. Karnilowitz said that secondly what he has also found is at the residential plan check counter, a lot of times customers may come in who sit there and get educated by the person behind the counter, the residential plan checker, because they do not have their documentation completed or the plans are not complete.  Mr. Karnilowitz stated that there should be about a 15 - minute time limit, because he has waited for half an hour and someone is going on and on.  Mr. Karnilowitz said that if the person does not have their stuff complete, they should be told to get their documentation complete or to get a professional and then come back.  Mr. Karnilowitz stated that the customer should not just take up somebody else’s time, so this is just something to consider.

 

Mr. Joe O’Donoghue of the Residential Builders Association said that in today’s S.F. Examiner there is an article about lead paint and keeping preschoolers from lead poisoning. Mr. O’Donoghue stated that there were two problems this Department had, and the first one was that improper and fictionalized criticisms were made of this Department that had no substance to the charges of the allegations, but in the past DBI never responded to them.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that a deficiency went into the Department system and secondly it never went out and highlighted the good product and good things the Department was doing for the public; for instance subsidizing of the housing inspectors that comes form the permit process fees.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that while we put a nexus in there, that nexus could be broken because the Department should not be subsidizing theoretically or legally, what DBI was actually doing.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that there is not one mention in the article today of the high subsidies, which come from DBI fees pertaining to lead poisoning, which is a concern.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that the Department has put in millions and millions of dollars from its fees, into trying to highlight the issue of lead poisoning that is already contained in paint.  Mr. O’Donoghue said so here is an article without one mention of the Bureau of Building Inspection and the efforts they have done, as well as the way they subsidized not from the general fund but from the fees and went out because the Department was well run and could afford to do this.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that what the Department needs to do is call the press here and give the story, because in fact when Neil Gendel first started the lead poisoning abatement process, the Residential Builders Association were the first group that came on board to support that whole process.  Mr. O’Donoghue said secondly, the RBA then encouraged the Department to take surplus funds and start subsidizing this whole process.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that he hoped Commissioner Guinnane would talk about the millions of dollars that DBI is putting into this program, and not one word to say to the public but for the Bureau of Building Inspection, The Recreation & Parks Department, and the Health Department would not be able to proceed with their agenda because they would not have the money to do it.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that because of the way this Department was well run in the past, and with the shortness of money there, generously DBI gave that money into the lead abatement program but there is not one word to say about the good deeds that were done from this Department.  Mr. O’Donoghue stated that instead of that people will hear from Commissioner Romero and Commissioner Walker about the allegations that were made in the past, about the uncertainty that was in this Department, presuming staff were guilty as to something they were not.  Mr. O’Donoghue said that this Department has done a great job and he hopes that since President Hirsch is in charge now that he would also come forth to take the credit for what the members of this Department are doing.

 

Commissioner Guinnane said that in reference to the last speaker, over a five-year period there was $2,700,000 spent.  Commissioner Walker stated that this item was not on the agenda, and she asked if Commissioner Guinnane would like to agendize this item.  Commissioner Guinnane responded no, he did not need the item agendized.  President Hirsch asked if there was any further public comment, and there was none.

 

7.

Adjournment.

President Hirsch made a motion seconded by Commissioner Walker to adjourn the meeting.

 

RESOLUTION NO. BIC 054-05

 

The meeting was adjourned at 10:15 am.

 

 

Respectfully Submitted,

______________________
Sonya Harris

Assistant Secretary

 

 

Edited by,

 

 

______________________

Ann Marie Aherne
Commission Secretary